Hey, so today we're talking to Lucy Griffiths, video strategist, and all of Lucy's links well be available in the show notes.
It's lovely to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I am a video strategist, and that means I basically help people do video. I love video. It's one of those things that people can find really intimidating and nerve racking to be on camera. I absolutely know how that feels. I spent 20 years working in TV, but for a lot of that, I was behind the camera. I was either filming or producing, so I would help people to kind of set them up, produce them for what questions I was going to ask them. I'd be asking them questions, and I'd see how nervous they would get. Then it became something that I ended up having to do. It wasn't something that I was certainly not somebody who wanted to be the centre of attention at all. I'm a total introvert. I was definitely of the “I want to hide in the corner” variety.
I remember being absolutely petrified the first time I did it. I had to talk about North Korea. At the time, I was living in China, but we were sort of an hour's flight from North Korea, so I went to North Korea a lot. I had to talk about Kim Jong-Il doing something or other, and I just remember being sick in the toilet being absolutely petrified. I understand what it's like to be scared of being on video. I will say that if you want to be on video for your business, it's the best thing you can do because it's like people get to know you. If you have an online business, it's really worthwhile doing.
I completely agree with you. From one creator to another, I know what it's like to be one side of the camera and then be expected to be the other. For me, I'm exactly the same. What makes it difficult for me is when it's something I know I need to talk about, so it's like a bit more scripted. If it's like that, it's much more difficult for me. I have to keep redoing it. I'm much better at just jumping on and being like, “Hey, we can talk through this and just going through it in a natural way.” If I'm put in front of anything with a script, I'm like, “Ah.” No it really makes me fall to pieces, really does.
It just, it does make people really have that mind funk. I've seen really, really senior executives or CEOs who you think like they run these million dollar companies, and then you stick a camera in front of them and they completely lose it, and just become mumbling wrecks. It's one of those things that really intimidates people. Actually, the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Yes, you know what is so true. I feel like we're spoiled for choice with social media especially if you're a business owner being able to jump on all these different platforms and do a live. It's a platform where you already feel a bit comfortable, you've already got an engaged following, or even if it's just friends in that on there at the minute that are chatting back and forwards to you, so jumping on those is just a little bit easier than oh my goodness if you had to suddenly sit down and record a video about your life work so far. It definitely has given us a bit of an easier way in.
Oh gosh I mean and also just with technology the way it is, it's so easy just to do it, and if you don't like it, just press delete. You can do a Facebook live walking down the street. If you like LinkedIn, then go with LinkedIn. It's amazing what you can do. This is, it's so wonderful that you can connect with people quite simply by just having a quick chat when you're sat at your desk or wherever you are, and then people will watch that a year later to see if they like you and they want to work with you. I mean how amazing is that as a way to basically sell yourself without having to really show up and do a presentation and all that kind of stuff that we used to have to do?
Absolutely. It's just one of the many reasons that video is so important. Why would you say is the main reason that video is super important, especially if you've got an online business?
Well all the social media platforms, so if you are trying to sell, you've got an online business and you're trying to sell yourself using social media, and all the social media platforms, I do a lot of work with Facebook, and they are all pushing video. Whether that's Instagram, whether that's LinkedIn, whether that's Facebook, they will absolutely say that you are five times more likely to sell if you use video. Facebook says you will be five times more successful if you use video, which is pretty phenomenal if you think of Facebook ads. That's a real reason to think about doing Facebook video for your Facebook ads. Also, just you build that connection with someone. You think about it, we have spent many, mean years sitting on the sofa watching our favourite stars whether it was 90210, or Doctor Who, hiding behind the sofa, whatever it was that was the show that we loved, and we built a connection. We had like crushes on our favourite Luke Perry or whoever it was that was our favourite heartthrob.
Those people now we form those same relationships now through video. Okay they might not have a crush on you, but you immediately know whether you like this person, and you like them on video, and you like that relationship, or you think, “Oh I don't like her.” We make judgements within three seconds of seeing someone on camera. That's why it does matter the first impressions. In real life, we make an impression of someone in the first seven seconds of meeting them. In the first seven seconds, we decide, “Do we like this person? Do we want anything to do with them?” We make all these judgements straight away. Online, it's through video. We make a judgment about someone within the first three seconds of seeing them. Within those three seconds, we decide, “Do we want to move on, go see something else, or do we want to watch?”
The people we want to watch, it might be that we like their backdrop, we like they're wearing a funny shirt, they look funny and they're looking smiley and having fun, or we like the way they're kind of dressed and their presentation. All of those things count. It's about being able to connect with an audience and stand out in that way, and so overcoming some of those issues, so whether that's kind of going down the funny route and entertaining people, or whether you're just looking pleasant. I was watching someone's LinkedIn just live earlier, their video on LinkedIn earlier, and this person was like is uber, uber smart, very, very good at what they do. They just completely and they had like branding for their logo and stuff like that. The hair, they hadn't bothered to brush their hair. I couldn't listen to what the person was saying 'cause I was just thinking, “Go and get a hair brush.”
I know I shouldn't think like that. I should be thinking, “Oh, this person has great value and insight”, but that's what came into my mind. You want to kind of make sure that you just you don't ... you stand out, but also you stand out for the right reasons, where they're not distracted by thinking, “Go and get a hairbrush”, they're thinking, “Oh I love what this person has to say, and I want to work with them.” In the same way when you see someone, if someone turns up at a business meeting, and they haven't made much effort, you wouldn't necessarily think “I'm not going to employ this person 'cause they haven't made much effort.” It might just kind of think, “They haven't made much effort for the meeting. Do they really want it?” It's all of those things you just have to think about when you go live on your business page.
If you're going live in a group where people know you and warm them up then, you can turn up in whatever you want to turn up in, because people know you, and it's a different relationship. Just think about the audience of who is seeing you, and what relationship they have with you. If it's a cold audience, you want to kind of warm them up in a different way. You want to make sure that you're appealing to them in a way that they're not going to dismiss you because of things. Unfortunately, we as women are dismissed because of the way we look in a way that men don't have those same issues. It's annoying to say, but it's a fact of life, it happens.
Completely. I'm glad that you brought up the hair brush situation because as a professional photographer and videographer, and same as it is with creativeness, just being professional online and helping others polish their professional appearance online, it really drives me insane to see when videos are done, and when people get on, and they're like, “Hey you just need to get on and do a video. Don't need to worry about doing this that and the other.” I'm like, “I completely agree, get on and do it, that is the motto.” It's also, “Don't be distracting. Don't have the distractions around.” I've seen people do them where they've got a door open behind them, and then you can see straight through into like a bathroom or something. I'm like, all that people are going to be doing when they're watching that is thinking, “I can see straight through into your bathroom.”
That is what we're going to be doing. We're people, that's what we do. None of us are perfect. None of us are judgment free. We do these things. If you want people to concentrate on what you're saying, then you need to remove any elements of these distractions. Sometimes that can just be that someone's sitting in a car, and you can tell that they're sitting in the driver's seat of a car, and it looks like the car is moving while they're doing a Facebook live. You think, “Not sure you should be doing a” ... do you know what I mean? It's distracting. There is a balance of getting on and doing it, but also just I don't know thinking about it, having a bit of thought around it as well.
Yes, so just always think about your backdrop and also this is now I'm getting onto my [inaudible 00:11:56] but the other one is people doing their hair when the camera goes live, that's like just look for a second, just reverse the ... so you can pretend to take a photo of yourself, have a look. If you're just walking down the street doing it, and just think, “Do I look vaguely okay” before you go live and start tossing your hair and doing that. It's like, “Come on. You wouldn't do that. You wouldn't go and pitch to someone and do a presentation and then show up and start doing your hair in the middle of a meeting. People would look at you like you were a lunatic.“ It's the same thing with a Facebook live. It's an audience who know you, it's different. If it's an audience who doesn't know you, then they're not going to take you seriously in the way that you want them to take you seriously.
That leads nicely onto my next question actually, which is obviously with bloggers, we're talking utilizing productive as well, being productive and utilizing video with bloggers no matter whether you're writing your blog posts, you can also include video somewhere, and you definitely, definitely should be including video somewhere. As you say, the platforms rate it so highly. It's a great way to get to your listeners. Even if they're not watching it with their eyes, they're listening to it. It opens up a lot wider of a net of people that you can reach. Why would you say then so many people that go onto YouTube create a YouTube channel then don't have the success that maybe they're having with their written blog?
So doing a YouTube channel is a slog, okay there's no way around it, it's a slog. The results and the benefits are huge, but you just have to keep going. I sort of feel like doing a YouTube channel is like something where you have to be really consistent with the keywords that you already know how to do from doing a blog. If you have a successful blog, it's about keywords. It's about selecting the title of your video before you make it, in the same way that that works really well with blogging. I mean I used to be one of those people that would just love to write a blog for the sake of it, I feel inspired and write something. I've realized that if I put a little bit of planning into it, actually I have a much better blog from an SEO perspective. It's the same with a video on YouTube. Being consistent, I would recommend once or twice a week with your videos on YouTube, using keywords, think of it like a big, like it's a pool of fish, and you want to be you're a minnow when you start out.
You want to be in the tiny rock pool. You don't want to be in the massive pool where people there's like 14 million searches. You want to be in a tiny rock people where there's like 5000 searches. The titles that you use, you're still talking about the same topic, but instead of talking about how to bake a cake or how to bake a birthday cake, you talk about how to bake a gluten free birthday cake with Thomas The Tank Engine on. It's a slightly smaller niche of people looking for that keyword. It might be then that you get 14000 people searching a month rather than 14 million. It means that you can have the possibility of ranking number one with that video. If you start ranking number one consistently with these smaller titles, then it means that you can from that can then start ranking on the bigger ones, and you're going to show up more regularly in YouTube, and that's when you can grow and develop. Basically, that is going to enable you to really start getting viewers and being seen.
Once you start doing that, then you grow more quickly. You can really grow and build. You can look at ranking and getting to 1000 subscribers, getting to which is the magic number where you start earning money, and then building on that to then really get big, big numbers really quickly. It's about consistency, and it's about being prepared to say, “I'm going to spend 18 months with just where it's a slog, two videos a week, I really work at this. I might not get the return that I want to get, but if I give it 18 months, I will absolutely get that return and then some.” You will then go absolutely stratospheric and get 100000 subscribers, and that's the thing with YouTube. It is the slog in the beginning.
From listening to you, it's without jumping into it in a too broad manner though, so maybe you're a blogger that's got a few different bits and pieces going on, but there's something that you're getting asked about all the time, something that you put out that people are really liking. Maybe you start doing your videos all around that one specific thing rather than kind of your whole what's the word catalogue of stuff that you're blogging about.
Yeah I mean it could be all the topics, but it could be so let's say you talk about cooking. I just mentioned a kind of an example of that, or you talk about and doing recipes actually, but if they're varied rather than saying, “Let's make apple strudel”, being more “Apple strudel with cinnamon”, or just slightly niche-ing down on the keywords, so you're not giving the big title. I know this one 'cause I do this a lot for people, but kind of how to build an online business gets like 28 million searches, but how to build a successful online business in 2019 gets a much smaller pool of people. How to create apply strudel in 2019 is that's a slightly weird title, but it niches it down so it's less people searching for that title.
I think people are just going to find that really useful, just starting to dip their foot in 'cause they think it is quite overwhelming. Especially if you are already aware of keywords, you do blog is that “Oh my goodness, do I want to take on this other thing where I've got to do a bit more research, got to think about keywords, slightly different people that are searching on there, slightly different way that it's all structured?” I think easy-
Then I would absolutely say the thing is that most people if you think of people who are coming from sort of Facebook, and they're not used to SEO and keywords, this is a total minefield where they're like, “Oh my goodness.” This is absolutely something they're not used to. If you're used to SEO and blogging, it's just a small tweak to actually just think, “Okay I'll just double check if this is going to work for video.” If you've already got, you've already done the planning and the research for your blog title, and your blog post, it's just one stage further to record the video with the same name.
Absolutely. I feel like video is the productivity tool of all businesses. If you can just get your workflow in the right order starting with video, you can actually create a lot from that starting point, it's that powerful. If you're more kind of an online business than relying on your written blogs, doing video for productivity, for content creation is just a no brainer isn't it?
Absolutely, absolutely. There are ways to also then flip it round. If you haven't got time to do blogging, you could take if you were doing like a how to video. You might want to mix it up, sometimes you do a vlog where you're kind of out and about, and then other times you do a how to video of cooking or how to do something within an online business or whatever it may be, that those ones you could get that what you said in the video transcribed, and then that can be blog post. It's a really great blog post, and they complement each other really well.
Yes, yes absolutely. Tell me about, to anybody that wants to get started in this at the minute, I'm always being asked about kits, photos and cameras. What camera? What camera for this? What camera for that? How do you advise for bloggers to create that kind of mini [2D 00:20:35] studio to speak at home?
Start with the basics. You want to know that you actually are going to do this. I use higher spec equipment now, and a DSLR camera. If you have that already then brilliant, go with that. Otherwise, you could start out just using your iPhone and just see if you like it. If you spend 1000 pounds on a camera and some kits and then you don't actually use it, it just becomes this enormous white elephant that your partner is thinking, “What have you spent this money on.” Whereas actually if you just have your phone, start out there, put some light behind you, start with just using the window. You want to have light coming in onto your face, so start with the window and just start there and see if you like the process. If you can film like five videos doing think, “You know what? I quite like this”, then go to the next stage and say, “I'll get a ring light. I'll get a microphone”, whatever it may be. If you just start with just doing it, because you want to be certain you're going to do this.
Obviously having light on your face, having a ring light on your face does make a big difference. It is more flattering to your face. You want to be certain you are going to follow through and be committed to going live, creating videos, doing a YouTube channel on a consistent basis.
Yeah 'cause that's the thing isn't it? We always kind of jump into stuff, and sometimes it just doesn't work for us. Sometimes one thing works for someone and not something else. Maybe doing like you said a little snippet video doing your blog post is kind of how you get into it and just see how you feel from there really.
That's it. Once you've kind of tested it and worked it through, then you can say, “You know what? Actually I'm going to get a ring light”, and you can just get those on Amazon. It makes life a lot easier to get all of those things. I do have a video kit list which has kind of all this stuff in it if you really want to be like, “I want to buy this.” Actually, in the beginning, just stand by a window and you'll get some nice light.
I feel like it's a confidence thing in the beginning as well. The amount of bloggers that I work with that are so hiding behind their pen, that's a phrase I like to use, they hide behind their word, they don't really want to get on camera, but they realize, they get to the point where they realize that's what they need to do to kind of step into their business, step to the front of it and own it and start being seen. Tell me about your journey with that. I know when we spoke you talked about how you really got to grips with your confidence. How did that look for you?
Being on camera is really nerve wracking. I definitely, so I had a background in TV, so I was always used to kind of sorting someone else out and organizing them. When I was first on TV, I definitely was petrified of it. Then, once I stopped working television and I was a stay at home mom, I started this business, and I was so petrified of being ... it was so nerve wracking to do a Facebook live. I was absolutely petrified, I was terrified. I was worried, I was just worried all my old colleagues would laugh at me, and I didn't want anyone to see it. I just felt really, and I felt like I was too fat, all of those things. I get rosacea, so I was worried about my skin, and all of these things. I know because a lot of my clients they have the same sort of issues. It definitely gets easier over time, but there are ways. Lighting, if you are worried about your skin, or you feel like you're getting too old, that was another one of my ones, lighting softens your face and it's really flattering.
You kind of want to walk around with some kind of lighting device over your head. I would say that that does definitely help with your confidence. We all get nervous about things. We have this sort of, we'd all love to kind of look slightly differently. I was just at an event, I was filming at an event yesterday, and there was a discussion a sort of panel discussion on skin. One of their skin experts says she gets women coming to her saying they want their skin to kind of look like their filter on Instagram, which is really quite shocking that people are going to a doctor and asking those questions. I can understand that, having a ... when you have got, I've to bad skin and you put makeup on. When you put a ring light on your skin, it's like, “Oh it goes away.” All of those things really help, same thing with wrinkles it goes away. I know you're thinking this is all about how you look, but so often how we feel is connected to how you look.
When you can overcome those and kind of, there are all these things that can put you off a live, a Facebook live or doing a video, and very often it's how you feel about yourself, how you look. If you can kind of tick off, “Well I've sorted out how I feel about my skin or my wrinkles”, the bags under my eyes is often one of mine, then ... the great thing about video is sometimes I have rubbish hair. When you're on video, it doesn't look quite as rubbish as it does sin real life. Again, that ticks off the list, rubbish hair. Then it's things like, okay sometimes you might feel like, “Oh I want to lose a bit of weight.” I definitely had videos where I've been filmed and I think, “Oh my god.” I hadn't realized I had put on so much weight. I had a whole bunch of videos done where I was working with my favourite cameraman. He doesn't live in this country, so when he does come over, I always like grab him and film a bunch.
I had 20 videos that I had filmed with him, and I hated them. It's like there's part of you that thinks, “God, I want to have one of those Kim Kardashian suck in things.” Then after a bit, I put the videos out, but it took me few months to put them out because I was really being pathetic. I put them out and everyone was like, “Oh my gosh, you look amazing.” You think, “What was I doing? Why was I being so ridiculous?” We have those thoughts in my head and I know that, but sometimes we are our own worst critics, much worse critics than anybody else who is going to watch these. On the very rare occasion where you get some nasty person saying something, well it's not nice. It's not nice when someone says something that is not pleasant about your business or about you. You feel hurt and whatever, but it's so rare. Usually the nastiest person to say anything is that voice in your head.
We are. We are our own worst voice. I feel sometimes you attract the people as well that give you ... you don't get it very often, but sometimes if you go on and then there's ... I don't know it's like a group of them go around, don't know they just find whoever is doing a livestream and jump on it. Sometimes you have to think, “Well how did I feel actually when I went onto that livestream? Did I feel super strong in my own power? Did I feel like oh someone is going to sabotage me?” I feel like sometimes it can come down to a level like that of what where we're thinking to ourselves in the first place.
Absolutely yes. I mean my first ever blog post I posted it in kind of a mommy group. It was like a London mommy group and basically oh god, there were all these women they were really nasty about it. It was my first blog. Luckily, it was actually a guest post for Honest Mum, so she was so sweet. She deals with trolls all the time, so she was like, “Look, this is how it is. You just have to roll with it.” I've been really lucky. I have to say, I've never had anything ever since that, but I do understand that it can really knock people for six. It's just not pleasant. I'm all about being kind and being nice and trying to uplift women rather than knock them down for things.
Yeah, I completely agree. I'm on the exact same level as you, there's enough challenges. It's a journey enough stepping up and saying, “I'm going to have a business. I'm going to have an online business, a blog business”, whatever. It's a journey enough, and it can feel very lonely, it really can. None of your family are going to understand if they're not entrepreneurs, they don't understand it. You can feel like very much you're on your own. I feel like we just need to support people rather than ripping people apart all the time.
Absolutely, yeah. This event yesterday yeah it's amazing how people can be really nasty about people. It's just so no necessary. I think kindness is one of the most underrated qualities in business, that actually is really important. If you're kind to someone, that person is going to absolutely refer you and talk about you. It will reverberate. In the same way, if you're kind about someone else, and you praise someone else, that will reverberate because they'll feel like, “Oh, I feel very good and happy”, and they'll also refer you and talk about you. It really matters. Our relationships online are so, it's not like the same as normal life. Every little small nuanced thing becomes a massive deal. These small little things we don't want to be criticizing people. All this kind of online bullying like, let's just be nice, be kind.
Yeah. I feel like you've just got to have an awareness that unfortunately sometimes these things happen when you put yourself up there, when you get up on video. It's just one of the like calls it up levelling, it's just something that comes with it when you start to present yourself, when you start to show up. It's just one of the things that can happen. You've just got to be fine with, you've got to be good with you, and then whatever you can just deal with whatever happens around you. It's just one of them things with online businesses.
Yes. I think it happens so rarely that it can happen. If you build a nice tribe of people around you, you're going to be okay.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. You're always going to have more support than you are sort of pushback. Tell me, that leads nicely into the talking about you a little bit Lucy and what your biggest learnings have been about having your own online business?
Oh my goodness, so many. Don't do it, no do do it.
I know, sometimes you think, “Why? Why did I ever start this? Why? Why?”
I know. Sometimes I sort of look at, like I get these emails of like a job. I was quite senior in TV, and I could definitely walk into like some positions in very senior companies, and I'd be nicely paid. Sometimes I think, “Oh that would be quite pleasant just to go and do that job and not have to do stuff.” I'm putting people off now, but at the same time, when you have to work for an office and you have to deal with like stupid meetings, and nonsense and commuting and like bitchiness in the office, and all of those things, you don't have that in the online world. It can as we've said, it can be quite lonely. I definitely say get a support network of people you like and trust and feel comfortable with that you can be honest with and talk about your struggles and the bits that are hard, as well as the bits that are brilliant. Then also, the things that I wish I got more clear about and consistent about, I wish I had started a YouTube channel earlier and understood SEO earlier, 'cause I think that's phenomenal.
The other things, I definitely went down a kind of rabbit warren of got to pay for Facebook ads, and sort of thought of the root that everybody did that was a successful route was kind of create a freebie and then do Facebook ads and go that route. Actually, when I started getting really granular and looking at my stats of where people were coming to my website from, I realized that they weren't coming from Facebook, they were coming from Pinterest. I was like, so I built a significant audience from Facebook, and I love Facebook. Facebook has been so good to me. Actually, I also get a lot of traffic from Pinterest. When I started focusing on Pinterest and really pushing Pinterest, I had enormous results on Pinterest as well. I think you might have that what everyone says of like, “This is the platform to go with”, yes try it, but also start looking at your own stats and Google Analytics and all those things to really understand your audience and where they come from.
When you understand that, then you can focus on those platforms, and that really, really makes a big difference. When I actually look at where my audience comes from, and where I get money from and return on investment, LinkedIn has been really good for me. When I started my online business, I thought LinkedIn was like, “Oh god, really boring, no one goes there.” You can surprise yourself of where your people come from, so really be analytical about that data and understand it, and also be prepared to kind of ride the wave. With for example Facebook, the reach has massively dropped since last year. Facebook, your audience reach is not as good as it was. That is beginning to happen on Instagram. Instagram is rewarding people who use IGTV. Look at the new things, and embrace the new things because you will get a better reach and that means you're going to be seen by more people, able to connect with more people, and therefore you can grow your blog or grow your online business.
Yeah it's definitely about finding out where your people are and putting your energy and your effort there. I feel like so many of us think, “Oh it's wrong face or we're wrong face. Because we consume Facebook a lot, all our people must be there.” It definitely comes down to who your audience is, and where they're really hanging out. We really do have five or six different audiences as well per business. We have an audience on Pinterest. We have an audience on Instagram. It's about finding out who is there and what they want from you. I feel like I understand what you mean about the rabbit hole with the Facebook ads. It's because it's what you see, you see other businesses doing it, and as a blogger you think, “Oh maybe this is where I should go or what I should do, or what I should focus on.”
The thing that I notice a lot in the new blogger groups is that there's so much pressure. There's so much pressure around follow numbers, domain authority, statistics, managing metrics that don't matter because the things that matter is that you're getting, you're starting to write your posts. At that stage, you're starting to get your posts out there, and you're getting them seen, and you're getting feedback from people that they're there for, so you can make them better and more tailored, and that you're concentrating on that. I just feel like there's a lot of noise is there online? I suppose it's cutting through it.
Absolutely yes, yes, really, really so much noise. I mean I'm almost at the point on Pinterest where I'm getting, and I know views don't count in the same way as actual click throughs, but I'm getting as a kind of show of how many people I'm getting, it's like I'm getting almost a million views on Pinterest. When you put some effort in and work into kind of your pins, and the strategy, it's amazing what you can achieve.
Completely yeah absolutely I agree. I'm glad that you love it over there. I love Pinterest. I'm always making boards. I love using it. I mean I definitely didn't utilize it in my own business for a long time, but-
I have a property renovation business, and I used to just use it to look up ideas for like how to do the garden or how to do shelves under the stairs, or whatever. Actually, when I started really focusing on it and being very strategic with like the pins, the design, the call to action on the pins, all of those things, my pins from my first year in business were rubbish, but once you kind of got really focused about that, it's amazing the difference and the results you can get.
Incredible. Well thank you so much for joining us Lucy. Is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Not particular things. I think with online businesses it can be lonely. It's just about, it's about making connections and being able to sell your product or your blog by those connections, and that's why video matters. When you start having a chat with someone on video, someone else is going to watch that and enjoy that and want to be part of you and your community. That's why video really, really matters because you can build that community, and you can help and inspire others. If that's what your blog's about, that's what your business is about, then that can make a real difference. It can be the thing that makes people feel like they belong to your tribe, and they want to get to know you.
That's a really important piece isn't it?
Yes, yeah, definitely.
Amazing, well thank you so much for joining us Lucy.
Oh thank you so much for having me here. It was fantastic thank you.
You're so very welcome. You can catch Lucy over at lucygriffiths.com. Is your kit list over there that you mentioned, your video kit list Lucy?
It is yes. I can send you the link if you want it, but yeah it's basically it's if you look on the website, it's there.
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